frankly… Episode 71: Servant Leadership Best Serves Your Team

In this episode of frankly…

The transcript below is AI-generated and may contain minor inaccuracies. Tune in to the episode audio to hear the full conversation! 

Transcript

Rachel

Hello, welcome to frankly.

Dan

Welcome.

Rachel

We’ve got a special episode this week. I get to interview my dad. Mike Burnard is on the podcast this week. Which, if you’ve been around long enough many, many moons ago in an episode where Tina Kozak was on, we were talking about dream podcast guests and she had said to me I really think it would be cool for you to interview your dad. It would be a very full circle moment. And so in honor of Father’s Day, which was last week, we got my dad on the podcast, who really also did have a pretty impressive career in the automotive industry.

Dan

Yeah, very.

Rachel

So he spent 34 years, which was his the entirety of his career at Ford, serving in multiple IT roles. So his whole background is in the IT space, so not communications, but really regardless leadership and the advice from it remains the same.

Dan

Yeah. And I I think some things that that anybody can really find interesting and applicable when you’re thinking about things like higher education and you know if and when something like an MBA is, is good fit for you in your career.

Rachel

Yeah.

Dan

I think he had some really great advice and some things to think about if you’re considering something like that.

Rachel

Yes.

Dan

You know what, you’re actually truly getting out of this experience and and education rather than just the curriculum.

Rachel

Absolutely. Yeah. It’s a way I hadn’t really heard anyone like talk about MBAs before when you’re thinking about it. So he when he retired in 2019, he was the director of product development, manufacturing, regulatory and purchasing IT. So he was globally overseeing all of those different kind of business units within Ford. And retired right before COVID.

Dan

Great timing.

Rachel

Which for him was probably a blessing in disguise.

Dan

Yeah. Great timing.

Rachel

But he was managing a lot of teams, a lot of people and, you know, spent his entire career at one company, which you don’t hear about really anymore. And so he talks about why and what to look for in roles and really just good I think as you start to lead people, how that should change over your career. He said a couple different like phrases that I haven’t heard before that you’ll kind of catch on to

Dan

Yeah.

Rachel

That I think are really interesting. So with that. Enjoy.

Hi, dad. Welcome to frankly. Welcome. Hello. OK. So in honor of Father’s Day, we’re recording this the day after Father’s day for  a special episode. But we’ve got my dad, who spent 34 years at Ford his entire career. So Dad, tell us a little bit about your career, your 34 years you started there, you ended there. What did that look like and how did you work your way through the company?

Mike

Very carefully.

Rachel

That’s fair.

Mike

Yeah. It’s so. So first off, thanks for having me. I’m gonna have to dig into the archives a bit, seeing I’ve been retired a few years yet, but I know it’s not normal to have worked a single career at a single company, but I didn’t think very much of it. I think no matter where you’re at, as long as you’re being challenged and doing things that you love and progressing in your career path and the direction that that you want, if that makes you happy. To me there was no reason to leave. And I was able to keep finding opportunities to let me grow personally and professionally that to allow me to do it. So you know, I came in right out of undergrad in college and started in what was known as the Manufacturing Systems Organization and way back then, if you can think back that far, we actually sent build instructions for every vehicle down to the plan on a punch card. And so they would drop those cards into the line side reader and it would print them on printers line side dot matrix printers the build instructions for every vehicle going down the line. And when I left, we were utilizing some of the early artificial intelligence to improve quality or duration of of tooling to get longer use out of it for really expensive tools you buy and things of that nature and I saw.

Rachel

So that was late 80s to 2019 like to give the time frame to people. That’s what I think is interesting. In one career, you can see that progression.

Mike

Yeah, it was funny because when I left, you know, we were we were doing some really cool stuff with artificial intelligence. And I retired, relatively young and many people who knew me well and my type A personality. They said, well, you can’t leave now. We’re doing really cool stuff. And I said, well, you ought to always be doing really cool stuff and if not, get out.

Dan

Yeah.

Mike

So you know there’s never really a great time to leave.

Rachel

No and you couldn’t have projected COVID hitting either, which was, I think, an interesting time that what you want to talk about doing cool things, that will throw a wrench in it.

Mike

Yeah, little did I know it was the perfect time to, to, to, to leave, because at that point you were just trying to figure out how to use social distance on an assembly line with the with the technology versus thinking big thoughts and trying to think up the next big thing. So I I couldn’t have picked a better time. But you know, I think back to your base question, right, you started in, in working in teams and and being members of teams and pretty much every job nowadays, you’re working in teams and you need to be able to, you know, foster those relationships so that the team can, you know, from a synergy point of view, you know, be more than the sum of the parts. And earlier in your career you’re you’re taking direction and you’re learning from people on that team that have been doing it longer than you have and eventually you become the leader of the team and eventually you start leading multiple teams and that’s when you start, you know, going up that career ladder. And what’s interesting, especially being in the IT space, it’s it’s a technology, even though it was punch cards in the early days, the technology changes pretty quickly. But as you climb the ladder, it’s far less doing and far more coaching and far more enabling. In fact, it can be somewhat hard because as people come in your office and you’re giving assignments, you tell them and you, you you’ve struggled to not tell them how to do it. You define the outcome that you’re looking for and let them go find their way to do it, which may be different than yours, and that’s ok. But your jobs, you know the it’s called servant leadership in the in the leadership development world is I existed merely for, for their for their purpose to support them. And it’s it’s really different as you move up that ladder and changing from a technologist to a more of a leader and then business savvy, you know, managing buzz, a budgets presentations, interfacing with senior leadership who you know, if you start to talk too technical, they get blazed over in their eyes. And so it’s, it’s you really had to morph as you as you rose up that ladder and because it’s all appropriate for the position you’re in and who you’re interfacing with.

Dan

Yeah, I I think we hear that. We’ve heard that from other guests before and is in that kind of like first stage of leadership. It’s hard to make that transition and try to like take your hands off of things like what was that.

Mike

It’s very hard.

Dan

What was that like for you in your in your first call it like team leadership role, anything that you found helpful there?

Mike

Well, one of the things that that was helpful early on in in my career as I rose is as my teams would bring in on project plans or folks from vendors or whatnot, I I had been close enough and you know I used to joke, I used to sniff the paper to see if it smelled like crap to see if, you know, you know the the, the, the, the project is supposed to end in in say six months and they, you know, did you put a project planned together that was just six months or did it really hold water and was it actually doable in six months? And so you’re able to you’re able to smell those things out and provide some suggestions or in the role then help enable to make some of those harder rocks disappear for them so they can be successful. But I think early on, having been in their shoes, you’re able to see maybe things they. They don’t see but in, but instead of, you know directly telling them that and dictating you change the conversation to say, have you thought of? Or what if? or you know, let them grow. Let them try to figure those things out and and occasionally, you know, they’ll make mistakes. But that’s part of learning as well. You know, you’ll learn your whole career.

Rachel

Yeah. Yeah, I think that’s an interesting point. I remember the biggest things I remember in my career and ways I will never do them again was making the mistake myself. Someone could tell me don’t do that. And it’s like, OK and I might fumble around and maybe do it. But when I made a mistake, you bet I never did that again. Like there’s something in that that shocks you into learning quicker when you make that mistake to never do it again then if, someone tells you just don’t do that.

Mike

As a leader, you provide the net form you know you know they may fail, but then you give them the air cover that they need in order and then try to get what what’s necessary to make them successful. And they’ll respect you more for doing it.

Rachel

You mentioned coaching. I think that’s an interesting phrase that. I don’t hear as much in leadership, right? You hear, like managing people versus leading people and that can what that means and how you, you know, approach those but I think coaching is an interesting way of looking at it and it’s something that it’s exactly what you’ve been describing. It’s not handing it to them, but teaching them the tools and the ability to get there. But I like that term of coaching people when you’re in a leadership role, it’s I think part of leading leading teams is coaching versus managing them, right? They’re two different things.

Mike

Meet the work manager and management. I manage my budget. And that was it. Everything else is absolutely leading in, in coaching and and one of the nice things at Ford and hopefully they’re still doing it is when you got to the next leadership level, there was actually leadership training available.

Dan

Hmm.

Mike

And when I got to the level, I got to it was they brought in directors from around the globe and it was a multi-week class and I actually had an executive coach on the outside. But coaching to me is is is everything. And your people have to trust you and you have to trust them, and you can only do that by building a relationship with them. And we used to have a saying is you should know what your people had for breakfast. Now I know that counts sounds kind of silly, but every you know the the the jobs easy if it weren’t for the people. Everyone’s different. What makes Dan Tick might be different than what makes you tick than anyone else, and you don’t know if someone’s going through a personal problem, a a sick child, a sick spouse, or whatever. But those are things that affect them in the workplace. And if you don’t understand what makes them go, what makes them not go, what’s impacting them then they’re not going to be 100% at work. And you’ve got to be able to coach people so they trust and respect you to have those conversations and and what I think is even more key is, is it’s two-way. So telling your people, you know, give me feedback as well.

Rachel

MHM.

Mike

And mean it, right? Because not all you know give me feedback, only as long as it’s good, yeah. Right. It’s hard to listen to someone walks in your office and gives you feedback that maybe you weren’t your best self in a meeting or something, and you’ve got to make a safe space for people to do that. You know you’re not retaliating. You thank them and then you go back and you you reflect on the situation and say you know, is that me in my personality? Was it something unique in the meeting? Was it a topic? Was it a trigger for me? And and so really I think coaching goes both ways and if people aren’t accepting of coaching then they need to find something else to do.

Dan

Yeah, and and I think like that, that kind of openness goes both ways too. If you can just have a regular non, you know, not every conversation has to be about the task at hand, like just setting aside some time to get to know people and and share some about yourself too also like kind of opens that door for them. It’s OK to kind of drop the professional face for a quick second.

Mike

And and you’ll find it’ll build a much stronger relationship that then they they will share things with you.

Dan

Yes.

Mike

Not only personal, but professional, that will make them better and you better.

Rachel

I think that’s what you find new opportunity is being willing to ask for it and have that openness, too, is if you know, they see that you’re willing to do more, try more, and you’re asking for it, then that’s how you’re gonna find those opportunities. They know what you really want to do.

Mike

Right.

Rachel

So you stayed at Ford your entire career after getting there and doing manufacturing via actual paper and right ended with AI. But what kept you there? What should you know, you kind of touched on this of why people should stay is if it’s making you happy. I do think in today’s economy and jobs and roles, money is a big factor, right? It takes more money to sustain a lifestyle to make sure that you can support yourself and your family. But you know, with that in mind, what keeps you at a job? What you people look for in a job or role or for that matter, a leader, right? You’ve talked about that, but what’s your advice?

Mike

Yeah. I think for me it was a couple different things. First off, I was a gear head. I might used to work on cars. In fact, if I didn’t work on my own car, it didn’t run. I remember rebuilding an engine with papa.

Rachel

Yeah.

Mike

So the fact that I could go make a career at a company that produced cars and being from Detroit, to me that was cool as heck. And now coming into what was new at the time, technology in fact when I started, IT was under the controllers office and accounting.

Dan

Hmm.

Mike

It wasn’t recognized as its own thing back then. That’s how new it was. And so to be able to to bring this this. New, you know, whole industry sort of thing the technology to and apply it to automotive. And I’ve always personally been one to love to create. To work at something and make something better, or make something happen differently. Whether it’s, you know, woodworking or whatever, to be able to create and to do that with technology and see that actually parlay into business success, to me is really cool. And then one of the one of the cool things from an IT point of view is we’re a support entity inside of the company. And so we align to the business entities and by that I mean there’s all sorts of functions inside of the of of a business, especially like Ford. You’ve got the manufacturing function, the product development function, the purchasing function, the HR function, right? The accounting function, finance and so we it was normal about every five plus or minus years to rotate to a new function. And so you would learn a whole new piece of business, but still apply the technology craft to it, which continued to advance as well. So you got to it, it became fresh again, it’s almost like changing companies and that that excited me, right. I think if you had to be in, in one chair the whole 34 years, I don’t think I’d have been there 34 years, right.

Rachel

Yeah.

Dan

Yeah.

Mike

And then the the the last piece which is key in in that I told people. I can’t tell how many people came in my office and in various points in my career and essentially wanted to know the answer to how do they get promoted right? How do they become in my chair? And like, like, there’s a magic pill or a magic path I could I could give them, and that’s just not reality.

Dan

Yeah.

Mike

What I found to be true for myself and what I coach those people to do. I I said you gotta be passionate about what you do and you’ve got to do it well, right? And and it’s got to be genuine. And it if that’s not occurring then go do something else.

Rachel

MHM.

Mike

But but if those things are occurring, the leaders around you will see that, right? And as you start to take on and you know lead teams in those in those situations and stuff that gets noticed, that’s what will get you promoted. If you’re knocking on the door and saying, how do I get the next chair?

Dan

Yeah.

Mike

No, go out and perform well with passion and make that your own. Good things always happen, I’ve always found that in my career and that was happening for me. And so, you know, obviously it it it put food on the table so my Maslow hierarchy of needs was met on the bottom rung. I was eating and I had, you know, a roof over my head. But in terms of, you know, professional fulfillment, you know that was it in spades? And so I never really desired to go look anywhere else.

Dan

Yeah. And I mean it’s it’s always some part about the people you’re around to imagine, but like, but you’re so right of, of looking at kind of growing in your role not as like a checkbox I have to do this, this, this and this and then I’m on to the next one it’s more so you know when you’re ready to move on to that next step is something that we’ve always said is like when you’re ready to move on, when you’re already kind of like in the role that you want, that’s when you are kind of moving on to that next part and you have to be passionate about it or else, you know, if you’re just looking at your job description and ticking boxes, it’s just not the same.

Mike

And people, people will see that very clearly.

Dan

Yeah, exactly.

Rachel

So, go ahead, Dan.

Dan

No, I I was going to jump back to to something off topic here. But you said you used to work on cars. What was your favorite? What was your favorite project car? Or did you have one?

Mike

Ohh boy. I mean, I’ve worked on a lot. I don’t. I rebuild. The engine was kind of cool, but when? I I go back to quite a bit is. I had a ‘72 LTD green. It was my grandma’s car and I bought it from her for $200 and paint it in her garage. And I remember that I I you know, I worked summers. I were always had a job and it needed a new master cylinder for those that aren’t aware of what that is that’s the main brake module that holds the fluid. When you push the pedal it forces it out to the wheels and the calibers to stop the car. My caliber was no longer working well and I needed to replace it, no big thing. My dad said No, you’re going to rebuild it because they had rebuild kits and you could rebuild it for about half the price.

Dan

Yep.

Mike

Right. And I said no, I can just pick one up. He says no, you’re going to do it for the learning. And so I was I I was a little upset, you know, at the get go. But at the end it was a good learning experience.

Dan

Yeah, it’s always worth it.

Mike

Yeah. And so that one, I always come back to remember and that you weren’t going to let me buy the the the damn master cylinder. He was forcing me on the rebuild.

Dan

Good life lesson.

Rachel

So that sounds like him. Dan sked the question because he has rebuilt a VW bus.

Mike

Oh okay.

Rachel

So he’s very big on cars as well.

Dan

Yeah, old Volkswagens is my sweet spot, but.

Mike

Yeah, yeah, the one I don’t like is putting the one I don’t like is putting a battery in Rachel’s car.

Dan

Yeah, yeah, too much plastic in there. You gotta fight through everything.

Mike

Yeah, they put it up near the firewall and you gotta tear everything apart to get to it.

Dan

Yeah, I’m familiar with those.

Mike

Anyways.

Rachel

New cars I feel like are harder for their novice to work, yeah.

Dan

For anyone, for anyone.

Mike

Yeah, because, yeah, they’re the mechanical things, they always were. But there’s so much software.

Dan

Yeah.

Rachel

Yeah.

Mike

In fact, when we started the the mobility team in Ford, I remember them coming to see, you know to the IT heads and they had a presentation that said there’s more software on cars today than there was the original space shuttle.

Dan

Yeah, it’s crazy to see some of these stats.

Rachel

Wow, that’s an interesting stat.

Mike

Put that in perspective, yeah.

Dan

Yeah, and think about the just exponential growth coming as more autonomy and all that stuff comes into play. It’s gonna be, yeah.

Mike

Feature enablement will be by software, not by mechanical.

Dan

Yeah.

Rachel

Yeah. I mean, the car that as we know it today will not be the car that like my kids will drive. That’s like the interesting.

Mike

Yeah, no, I tell I tell people to think of your car as, like, an iPhone. Yeah, because now you got OTA updates to it. You know, you can you can turn on and off capability based on what the software are. It it’s a completely different animal.

Dan

Yeah, it’s like just phone apps, basically for different stuff.

Rachel

So one thing I hear about a lot. So you got an MBA and how many years into your career were you? It was around, it was early 90s, right that you got your MBA, so not that long.

Mike

Correct. I started at Ford in January of ‘86 and I got my MBA in ’92 was when I finished it.

Rachel

1. So one question I hear bounced around all the time is about getting advanced degrees. I tell people in communications do not get an advanced communications degree. It is absolutely not necessary, but then people will go to MBA’s, right? Because you can learn like you’ve talked about leading people. You’re also managing those budgets, but you have a business to run. There is a higher function here. So what made you get an MBA so earlier in your career? And how do you think it helped you or opposite didn’t help you in your career?

Mike

Yeah, I think it did. It helped me, but the start we’re we’re your your your initial ask. So I was the only person in my whole family to go to college and I graduated with plenty of student loans and all that fun stuff and so. I went to work and making my payments and Ford offered at at the time anyways to pay for the MBA. And to me, you know. That’s like if you don’t, if you don’t take it, it’s like leaving a 401K.

Rachel

Leaving money on the table.

Dan

Yeah.

Mike

Yeah. Right.

Rachel

I knew you were gonna say that, you don’t leave money on the table

Mike

I mean, and you know, I’ve been a big fan of this and I’ve seen what it’s done in, in not only my personal life, but others around me. When you think about it, education is about the only thing you can own that nobody can take from you. And it’s such a valuable asset and to not take the opportunity when offered just never made sense to not do it. And so, so then the question is, you know, should I really? And if so, is Wayne State the right place? And so I talked to various colleagues you, you know, around me at work. And I went in and talked to the to the head of HR and where I at the time anyways, where I aspired to go most, if not all of those senior leaders had MBA’s, right? You know, from very prestigious schools. And I asked the head of HR at the time and I said, you know, do I really need an MBA to, you know, to stay in the company? I knew that MBA would help me if I left the company. And at that time earlier in my career, I didn’t know if I’d be staying at Ford or not?

Dan

Yeah.

Rachel

Right.

Mike

And in in, in what I was doing an MBA would absolutely help me if I went on the open market. If I stayed inside of Ford, some positions do require it, but again, it’s more of a check box so it didn’t matter if it was a Michigan MBA or Wayne State or anything else, it’s just the fact that you had that degree, right? And so I made the decision at the time, I didn’t know if I would be staying at Ford. I knew that if I wanted to get to certain levels, that was a requirement for that job. I made that decision that let’s get on with it and and went ahead and did it .

Rachel

Well, at the time there’s not online either, so like that feels like an even bigger commitment at the time, because now you can get an online MBA kind of in your own time, right? The whole different story, but.

Mike

Yeah, Wayne State, one of the reasons it was appealing to me is they offered a significant amount of MBA offerings in the evening and at outposts.

Dan

OK.

Mike

I remember going to Birmingham and along with downtown, but it met because I was working, you know, already 10 hours a day, then you have to physically go somewhere and sit in the classroom. And so it just happened to work for where, you know logistically. But yeah, I think it helped immensely because. You know, not only learning, you know, sort of management of you know different art, you know, different leaders, you know that we’re recognizing the industry models, but also I met a handful of people that I stayed close with in my own career that I could reach out to that were in different industries. And so along with learning and on top of that critical learning around thinking. Because you know, there aren’t many things. Probably you learn in your undergrad degree, you use today in your professional life as you advanced. But what it did is it taught you how to learn. Yeah, it taught you how to think. It taught you many things that are it’s sort of in your skill basket that you do utilize today and you’ll continue to use and so.

Rachel

Kind of your problem solving, right? Like how do I take a problem at hand and figure out multiple solutions to get to where I need to go?

Mike

Absolutely. And the reality is you need to be continually learning in your career regardless of what it is. If if you stop learning, you might as well just go die on the vine.

Dan

Yeah, and. And that’s so true, though about even undergrad. Like other than, you know, maybe becoming a better writer or become, you know, learning some of these like very, very core skills that you need throughout your career. It is that thinking part because, you know, I think back and 50% of what I learned in undergrad is not even anything we use anymore today. You know, there’s the basic press release lives, but you know, some of the things that were around in social media and things like that and, you know, any kind of integrated communications wasn’t around. So it’s just. It’s so different. Yeah, it wasn’t there yet.

Mike

It wasn’t a thing.

Rachel

And you add generative AI to it, and I use that every single day in my career now.

Dan

That wasn’t even thought.

Rachel

That wasn’t like I spent the first eight years of my career with that not being an option. So now, like, how I do my job has even shifted, right? So, yeah, there’s everything makes sense at that point in time.

Mike

And it will continue and it will continue.

Rachel

Yeah. Yeah. So I think too because was your focus of your MBA finance, if I remember correctly.

Mike

Yes.

Rachel

I think that is one of the biggest functions that to move up in companies and careers. You really need. That’s like the missing piece of the puzzle that you’re not always going to be a part of in your roles at companies is understanding how to manage multimillion, multibillion dollar companies or budgets or whatever it is. So to me, the financial side of business is something that you kind of that would be very helpful for from my understanding of moving up.

Mike

Yeah, and. And so you know, while my degree was in what was called business information systems, it was IT related to business. I was one class short of an accounting major.

Dan

Hmm.

Mike

So accounting was my minor. In fact, I loved the accounting so much, I actually started interviewing with accounting firms. That’s where I wanted to take my caree. But I actually walked into I I went on 2 interviews and I walked in and I did not see myself fitting in the culture that was the big eight accounting firms back then.

Rachel

Yeah.

Mike

It was a bunch of old men in suits and tossed shoes, and I just how does Mike live in this environment? And at that point I I pivoted and I said, well, let’s go look at the IT side of this. And one of things, it was really cool is when middle of my career was actually, I led the IT work to rewrite the accounting systems at Ford.

Dan

OK.

Mike

And so got to use both both pieces of it which I thought was really cool at the time.

Dan

That is neat. Kind of best of both worlds.

Mike

Yeah.

Rachel

When you’ve retired, how many what was the size of your teams and how many people? What were you overseeing when you left? Like, what did you grow to?

Mike

Yeah, I think I probably had 12 direct reports around the globe and those direct reports aligned as the business was structured. So for instance in purchasing, it starts with direct and indirect purchasing. So direct is it is, are we buying stuff that’s going to go on a vehicle or in an engine or or whatnot. Indirect are pre production prototype parts, office supplies, you know and anything that does not go on it. And then from there it further breaks down and so. I had my organization had accountability globally for all of manufacturing, all of product development, which included you know, design and engineering, purchasing and regulatory. And so I’ve had about 12 direct reports and I think globally it had about probably 3500 people…

Dam

Wow.

Mike

…in my organization.

Rachel

I just think about that cause as you grow and take on more people and then those people are of higher roles too, they’re the management of them. They need a lot more management or leadership or coaching too. So trying to split your time and energy between that without shorting somebody is something I think is becomes a very large challenge when you get to a certain level.

Mike

Yeah, it is, but I don’t. I don’t think it might be as bad as as what you think, right? So, you know, my direct reports were very seasoned individuals and many of them could have sat in my chair. In fact, one of them did when I retired. She got promoted to to come in behind me and has done extremely well. But you know they for the most part are very well-rounded. They they do a phenomenal job and so it’s it’s course corrections and again you know back to the servant leadership role, it’s about about making sure they’ve got what they need. Because I can because in my chair I can I crush bigger rocks, then maybe they can. And so that’s really what I saw in my key role along with with those coaching. But you know, it’s not like someone two years out of college and is extremely green. It’s a completely different animal.  Which I did earlier in the career, but when you reach that level, it’s a, it’s a, it’s a bit different.

Dan

Makes sense.

Rachel

That’s fair.

Rachel

1. Last question, Dan. Or do you have another one?

Dan

Yeah, yeah. Last question, I think so.

Rachel

OK, So what advice would you give your 21-year-old self who was interviewing at accounting firms apparently? What knowing what you know now, what would you tell him at 21?

Mike

Well, one thing I always tell any 21 year old when I get the opportunity is. You know, you guys, you, you guys are probably similar in age and you know, when I was at your age I I looked at someone at my age, which is, you know, 60s and I thought they were near death, right? That was really, really old. And now that I’m there, you know, 60 is the new 20.

Rachel

60 is the new 40, don’t push it.

Mike

OK, alright, alright, I’ll take that. But but the reality is is you know, you probably don’t think a lot about, you know, 40 years from now, 50, 60, you’re you’re focused on on what it is you’re doing today. The one thing that you cannot get more of, no matter how hard you try, nor how much money you have this time. That is it and don’t squander it so. I tell people to open up a 401K or an IRA and get into it, especially to the degree you’re getting matched. Period because time will be your friend.

Dan

Yep.

Mike

Right. And then the other thing that if if I was truly talking to myself back at 21, I would probably say slow down and enjoy the wins more. You know, I’m type A and driven and I was always looking for the next hill to climb and I think you know you need to take time at the end of those wins and celebrate those with those around you and your teams for your own benefit and theirs, and then go for both work and at at home or things you’re doing. But I think slowing that down and sort of smelling the roses versus just, you know, gearing up to take the next hill immediately is probably something I would say to do because you don’t get a second chance at it and you don’t want the regret.

Dan

Yeah, I I love that advice. I mean, it’s just it’s so easy to go from one thing to the next to the next and just you know, not even think hardly. But yeah, I love that.

Rachel

It how you get burned out too, right? I think you’re gonna burn yourself out real fast if you never slow down and appreciate what you have done and then look at where you’re going because you’re just gonna grind until you burn out.

Mike

You you can, you know, yes, professionally as well as physically.

Rachel

Yeah.

Mike

But yeah, I think you know, slow down and smell the roses a bit more, I think is something that of course I probably wouldn’t listen.

Rachel

Yeah right. Smell the roses and put some money in your 401K.

Dan

There you go.

Mike

Tell you what now is better than 10 and 20 years.

Rachel

No, because we we’ve talked about this with Roth IRA’s and how that wasn’t even an option when you were our age like that is something. That’s advice I give 21-year-olds is max out a Roth IRA. The second that you can because it’s not that much money every year. If you really look at it and can plan for it and it’ll do dividends at the end like that is, I think the one’s really good if you could do nothing else, then you should do so.

Mike

Yeah. And what I tell people is every time you get a raise, put half of it into your IRA or 401K. That way you still get a raise, but you don’t miss the money you never got.

Dan

Right, yeah. You’re still living within that same means.

Rachel

Bonus and tax returns. Those are the two other things I think you can do that with very easily. Well, Dad, thanks for the advice. I’ve learned a lot of financial advice over the years.

Dan

Yep. See where it comes from?

Rachel

Wasn’t always great, but now I can get there, you know.

Dan Yeah

Rachel

Dad, thanks for coming on. Really great advice. I think that anyone at any point in their career could use. So Happy Father’s Day. We’ll see you later.

Mike

Thank you very much. Alright, thanks guys. Thanks.

Dan

All right. Well, thank you so much to Mike Burnard, Rachel’s dad, for coming on today and and again, Happy Father’s Day to to him and all the all the dads out there.

Rachel

Yeah, I realized part way through that the entire time that we interviewed him, I never said his actual name.

Dan

Yeah.

Rachel

I just kept calling him Dad, so luckily we introed him.

Dan

Yeah, exactly.

Rachel

Having Mike on is always a funny thing to say, but it was fun chatting with my dad. I obviously get to talk to him a lot in general, but you don’t get to have these kinds of nice conversations that often so nice to share them with everyone.

Dan

Yeah. Hear the story.

Rachel

And we’ll see you next time.

Dan

See ya.