frankly… Episode 82: Digital Wellness is About Presence, not Productivity

In this episode of frankly…

The transcript below is AI-generated and may contain minor inaccuracies. Tune in to the episode audio to hear the full conversation! 

Transcript

Rachel

Hello and welcome to Frankly.

Dan

Welcome.

Rachel

We have Ashley Fahey on the podcast today. She is the founder of Tomorrow is Human, which is a organization, really a business that aims to enhance digital well-being and foster authentic human connections in a really, truly increasing digital world. Something that started as her moving around a lot and trying to form like in-person connections when after COVID, so much of that had fallen off. She’s turned into a business, which is like a dream for anyone.

Dan

Yeah.

Rachel

So we talk a lot about just like how she defines digital wellness and what Tomorrow is Human is doing to help people connect more in person.

Dan

Yeah, through dinner events, through workshops, there’s a lot of different ways that she’s already doing this and it sounds like expanding even more as we look ahead. But yeah, Ashley talks about kind of going from an education in archaeology of all things through a couple of different careers and moves and then really like overcoming the, I guess, perception that you need to have a traditional career to become, and then kind of like becoming a founder from there, what that has looked like for her.

Rachel

Yeah, the pipeline from archaeology to digital wellness is a windy one. So an interesting path. She’s had a lot of fun jobs along the way. So anyway, here is Ashley.

Dan

Hi, Ashley. Welcome to frankly.

Ashley

Yeah, I’m so happy to be here.

Dan

So start off with telling us a little bit about your career path, kind of your background. What was it that led you to where you are today?

Ashley

So many things that led me to where I am today. I would describe myself as having a pretty. I went to school like right after high school, went to college. So it’s kind of like the option that I thought that I had.

Rachel

Which is what everyone did.

Ashley

It’s just what everybody in the place where I grew up lived, or excuse me, where I grew up did. And yeah, went to college totally undecided and found at the very small school that I went to, there happened to be this archaeology program. And I was like, well, I don’t know what I want to do, but that sounds really fun.

Dan

Yeah, it could be Indiana Jones.

Ashley

Exactly. Yeah, totally.

Rachel

So, and why not take out a bunch of loans to do that? Because you’re 18 and it sounds so much fun.

Ashley

And have to then pay to go dig in the dirt. It’s manual labor. Yeah, of course, of course. But yeah, so that sort of brought me then to The degree I ended up with was a classics degree, so focusing on language actually. So Latin and Greek was my, excuse me, my undergraduate degree, because that was sort of like within the context that I was working with. And then again, didn’t know what I was going to do with this degree. So like, why not? I’m pretty good at school, so why don’t I just keep doing school things?

Rachel

I like to call that a professional student.

Ashley

Oh, totally. And I would say even now I’m like 10 plus years out of school and I will always be a lifelong learner. Like that will never go away. So it’s a good skill to have.

Rachel

Yeah, that is a good skill to have.

Ashley

Thanks. Yeah, I love learning. And so I went on to do a master’s degree in classical archaeology and museum studies. And during that program, I actually realized that I didn’t want to be an archaeologist.

Rachel

It’s really easy to figure out what you don’t want to do, a lot harder to figure out what you do want to do.

Ashley

Yeah, totally. So I had dug in Italy during undergrad and then in grad school, I went to Greece and they are very, these countries where excavation happens are just very specific about the number of excavation permits that they have. So we didn’t have an, we weren’t allowed to dig. We could only like survey the site we were on. And I did not love that.

Rachel

Yeah

Ashley

Like taking pictures and just like drawing things to scale was not fun.

Dan

Yeah, not the same.

Ashley

Give me a pickaxe, yes, give me like, but like drawing to scale, no.

Rachel

So it’s getting you halfway there, but not the fun part.

Ashley

Totally, totally. And so I realized I didn’t want to do that. And so luckily I, where I was going to graduate school, had a museum studies like program like certificate. So I did that in addition to the program. And then my first job out of college, or I guess it was out of college, but out of graduate school was working at the Museum of Science in Boston. I had done an internship there earlier in grad school. And so then I went back and I did work there for about three years working in what’s called interpretation. So essentially like if you’ve ever been to a museum and you see people in like aprons or lab coats and they have a cart and they’re doing an activity. That was me.

Dan

Oh nice. Okay.

Ashley

And so I basically got paid to play and I got to design. activities that would help people learn science in a very hands-on, approachable, not this like, I need to be a degree haver or like scientist kind of way, made it very accessible.

Dan

Yeah

Ashley

Exactly. And so I loved it so much. It was so fun. It was so fun, right? I like building like trebuchets and like playing with circuits and stuff, right? It was so fun. And then happened to marry this guy that I really loved and he moved us to Houston, Texas.

Dan

Okay, all right.

Ashley

So I then left the museum, like that wasn’t gonna work. And so I moved to Houston, felt a little lost. I will be totally honest about that.

Rachel

Sure.

Ashley

I didn’t have like 20 years in the museum field. I didn’t have this, background of network and all this stuff. So it was hard. And I also didn’t want to start at the beginning again. So, and I was like 27. So I don’t know.

Rachel

You’re like, we need the next thing.

Ashley

Exactly. So I ended up managing a yoga studio when I was there. So, okay, so now we’re like on to phase two of Ashley’s twisting career path. And Yeah, managed a studio, got introduced to a lot of personal development work when I was there. Just the specific type of yoga they were doing was really like, yes, the poses were really important in meditation, but they also were really focused on personal development.

Rachel

And so it’s kind of like a lifestyle.

Ashley

Totally.

Rachel

I feel like yoga, especially when you’re deep in it in a studio, like it’s about the practice itself, but the mindset that goes around that.

Ashley

Exactly. Yes, And so got really exposed to that and how, like, I had never like been exposed to anything like that before. Like my, like it was very much survival mode in childhood growing up, just figure it out, not like, you can be a better person. So that was so new.

Rachel

Imagine that.

Ashley

Yeah, exactly. And so, totally got into that. And then guess what? We moved again. And so we moved to Danbury, Connecticut. I don’t know if you’ve ever been to Danbury. It’s like, I’m not going to trash talk Danbury on this podcast, but it is Connecticut just in itself is kind of like suburban, like it’s very suburban. And so from going from Houston, like the third or 4th largest city in Boston, totally, yeah, to then the Danbury, which was much quieter. I didn’t want to be there. I didn’t want to leave this job that I’d had. So I rebelled a little bit and got a job in Cambridge, Mass, which we’re not looking at a map, but it’s like 3 hours away.

Rachel

Oh my god.

Dan

That’s quite a commute.

Ashley

So again, that was like out of reaction. I was just not, didn’t want to move.

Dan

Yeah.

Ashley

And so then I ended up working in HR at a, like a biotech startup, because Cambridge has a lot of biotech. And so I was staying with my parents during the week, would go back to Connecticut on the weekends. Yes, again, it was a choice. I’m not sure I would make it now, but at the time it seemed correct. And it actually, I do believe that things work out for a reason, because that was, I got that job December of 2019. And so three months later, we all know that the world shut down. And they kept me on, they allowed me to work remotely. I could live back in Connecticut in my apartment. They paid me. And they vary, I definitely was the last person hired. I could have very easily been let go. So I know that it worked out for the way that it was supposed to. But I ended up hating it, like really hating it. I went in thinking I love people, I want to be with people. But then the, I guess, the side of HR, like knowing the personal things about the employees, I didn’t feel like aligned for me. And like if somebody were just going to get let go, I would like know about it. And that felt like so yucky to me.

Rachel

Yeah, it feels almost opposite of the personal improvement stuff like that you’re just doing at that yoga studio. Not that they don’t go, it’s a job, HR is a job that has to be done, but it just doesn’t feel in alignment after kind of going through that experience.

Ashley

There are people who are meant to do, like there are lots of people who are meant to do that job and do it so well. And it just was like it said, like very much.

Rachel

I’ve known you for 5 minutes and I can tell that about you.

Ashley

So, right, exactly. So during the pandemic, I actually ended up doing a coaching program through that yoga studio that I had been part of. And so it was sort of the like, kick in the pants that I needed, especially when I was like crying every day and I hated this HR job. It was like the, I describe it as like the bridge job that got me out of like a corporate setting to then like do my own thing. So 2021 ish, I left the HR job, started my own coaching practice, was helping people just like create their life that they wanted. That was really what I was up to and I did that for about two years. And then we moved again. my gosh. So then that was October of 2023. We moved to the Detroit metro area. And so have been here since then. And that’s sort of where Tomorrow is Human was born. I moved here, was feeling stagnant in the coaching practice. I was also feeling very depressed and had experienced in the yoga studio very much like an in-person community and how that was like so life-giving for me. And then going to like, whether it’s the pandemic or living in a place where I didn’t know anyone in Connecticut, I just felt super isolated and had lots of friends online. But the I had nobody that I could just be like, hey, you wanna come over or like grab coffee? Yeah, like a bridge wasn’t there.

Dan

Yeah, and when you’re moving like that, it’s hard to, I mean, you’re having to re-establish every time you land in a new spot. It’s hard to build that network every few years.

Ashley

Exactly, totally. Yeah, exactly. So moved here, knew that like what was going on was like not working. And so it was also around the time when like I feel like AI was becoming like more, like it was – AI’s been around for a while – but it was becoming more of like mainstream conversation. Totally, totally. And so I don’t know whether it’s that I am an archaeologist. I think that does play into it a little bit. But also just like I think that human connection, like I had experienced that as how the two can be so different. I was like, okay, well, I’m just going to, and I mean, have you ever been to dinner and somebody is just, or not just someone, everyone is on their phone just the entire time.

Dan

Yeah, just give it me an hour.

Rachel

Exactly, especially when you were online all day doing a job, and then what you were seeking was in-person connection. And then you get in person and people are still in their devices and you’re like, hey.

Ashley

Totally, totally. And like I would meet people, because right, I’m like going to these networking events, trying to meet people in Detroit, and I would like friend them on social media or LinkedIn or whatever. And then I would see their life and I’d be like, Oh, we’re friends, but we don’t know anything about each other, right? Like, that’s I think that, like, Astaire Perel refers to it as like artificial intimacy, like that…

Rachel

Parasocial relationships, yeah.

Ashley

So that was definitely a thing, and it was again not sustainable for my, like, how I wanted to feel, even so. I’d always had this idea of doing dinner parties. And I was like, okay, I’m gonna host a dinner party. I’m gonna have everybody come over. I’m gonna have them put their phones in the, it’s a lunch, it’s like a picnic basket.

Dan

Okay.

Ashley

Put them in a picnic basket. And then we’re just gonna, I’m gonna facilitate some stuff for everyone. And so that is where Tomorrow is Human was born was from. me knowing that I need people to experience what it would be like to just be with people and not have the digital distraction that just comes with being human in 2025.

Dan

Yeah, So talk a little bit about how that’s grown, how Tomorrow is Human has grown since that first dinner party. Like how have you taken that and kind of run with it into a business. Yeah. What are you doing now?

Ashley

Yeah. So still doing dinner parties about a year and a half later. And so those, it’s just a way to bring people together. And then again, I do facilitate some conversation because I do find there is like, you said, like this bridge of. okay, you take my phone away, but now what do I do? And so people just need a little bit of support. So I create conversation cards. Usually there’s a theme to things. And then giving them just a little bit of support that then usually can be dropped off at some point. And so we’ve been doing, yeah, dinners. I’ve been partnering with different chefs and restaurants over the last year. So that’s starting to pick up more. And where we’re at now is I feel like there is a shift coming, because Tomorrow’s Human, yes, did start as a dinner party, but its intention is to, it’s always been a digital wellness business.

Dan

Yeah.

Ashley

That’s always been what my intention has been. And just, I think from my museum background, I was like, okay, got to make this experiential. So like, that’s how I was doing it. And so now that that’s sort of like, exists in the world, I’m finding that now I want to incorporate digital wellness more into like an everyday ritual versus just these like one-off retreat style dinners.

Rachel

Talk about how you define digital wellness.

Ashley

Sure. I think of digital wellness as almost like, I think of it about it as more more consumption related and quality is more important to me. Like I, a lot of times, maybe on your phones, you measure the screen time. That’s one way we could measure digital wellness. But to me, if, hopefully the people listening to this podcast are like getting an educational element, right? But you’re on your phone. Whereas like doom scrolling is different. And so I think it’s consumption, like what we’re consuming and just like what we eat or drink or put in our bodies, like what we take.

Rachel

It’s a necessity of today’s life to be in a digital space.

Ashley

Absolutely.

Rachel

But just like eating or drinking is, but what you consume, just like the food that you eat, it serves a purpose. Yes, it is fuel. The digital, what you consume is fuel for your mind and everything else you do, right? Like it’s a good comparison.

Ashley

And just like maybe you eat the potato chips. Like I’m not like I’m not Tomorrow’s 20, right? Are not anti-tech. I am not like, yeah, you can only listen to educational podcasts. Like, I like watch the cats. Like, yeah, But it’s when I think the disconnection is happening, and I think it does happen with food too, is like the digital distraction especially can disconnect us from like ourselves and our emotions. If we pay a little bit more attention to our emotions and how, oh, I’m feeling like butterflies in my stomach and that means nervous and then I grow from my phone, like what are maybe some practices I could put in to and I know that that’s like not, that then I’m numbing out or whatever the result is. Exactly. So what are some things that maybe you could do instead? And I really do believe that like community care and like in-person connection is a really big part of all of this conversation. Yeah, they go hand in hand together, like digital wellness, community connection.

Dan

So talk a little bit on the community connection side of things. Talk about kind of like what you’ve found in Detroit, whether it’s among like a founders community or among other organizations or other like-minded groups or things like that. Talk a little bit about what your network and your connections look like in town now.

Ashley

Okay, do you mean like where I’m spending my time?

Dan

I guess maybe partially that, but also just like, I guess, have you found a, have you found the Detroit like Founders Network to be a good resource for you in how you’ve kind of like organized things and built those?

Ashley

Absolutely. Absolutely. I have lived in other cities as I’ve referenced. I have not lived in other cities as a founder though. But I just like the resources available here for founders. the programming, whether it’s financial or educational or just like network support, it feels like unmatched to me. Like Detroit really does feel like it’s like pouring into small business. Whether it’s small business then like it’s gonna grow super big or like small business that stays like small and supports the city itself. Like I really like I don’t think if I were living back at home in Boston or in New York that I would get this like access or anything like that in the same way.

Rachel

That’s actually a very, through work with clients, I actually know that that’s true. There’s people that, there’s clients and organizations we’ve worked with where we’ve heard from founders and small business owners that they’ve actually moved other places, not had that support and come back to start the business here because they have that support. And it’s like, there really is, I think, a blueprint that needs to be put in place in these other cities that helps people do those things too, because you know the difference. And You’ve moved a lot. Hopefully, maybe this is long term for you.

Ashley

Well, we’ve gotten over the two-year mark, so that’s always a good sign.

Rachel

I love that. Do you think that the kind of like remote work, more online work, just the shift to how much we went online during COVID has played a part in the way, like, school went online. And now I feel like with kids, it’s like very hard to get them to do anything in person or connection, right? How has that, have you seen that play a role in digital wellness and how people are responding to like using their phone as a tactic?

Ashley

I think, yeah, I think that’s a great point is that we use our tech in a different way than we did five years ago, potentially. Even I, like, the thing about technology is that it is like it grows exponentially, right? And so even if we think about all these AI tools did not exist in the same way they did a year ago. So like it’s just, it does feel to me, I mean, I’m a human too. It sometimes feels overwhelming. Like there’s so much.

Rachel

Dystopian a little bit.

Ashley

Totally. And so going back to your original like statement or question about like how Yeah, how this like online, whether it’s in school or work, like how that affects, I do think that just, what do I want to say about this? Generally, I think it’s allowed us to get very like comfortable with not getting out of our comfort zones. Like just it allows people to have that additional barrier of whether it’s self-editing or yeah, like we’ve talked even before about editing this podcast. Like, do we do that? Or do we just like let it flow? And do we make everything so like, think everything has to be so curated and perfect, which comes across on any social media platform? Or do we just like allow for the bumps that like might like be a little cringy or like a little uncomfortable?

Dan

The human.

Ashley

Exactly. And so that’s it. Like human, like I think the big difference between humans and if we’re just comparing to AI, like it’s that like we love that Simone Biles can flip a million times in the air because there’s like a potential that she could not like she could mess up, right? Like there’s that like… It’s the human, that’s her humanity is that she’s not perfect. And so versus like machines are like, where’s the fun in that?

Rachel

They’re guilt to be perfect.

Ashley

Exactly. And so I think that we all have just got like me and like I will raise my hand and include myself in this club. Like I have gotten way more comfortable with being like, oh, well, I can order my food and it will be delivered to me versus going to the grocery store and having to talk to a check like a cashier. Oh my God. Like or like going to the store and going to sell Like I go to self-checkout every single time.

Rachel

There’s like always just two cashiers ever working ever.

Ashley

So it’s like totally, yes. But even that like human, like those micro.

Rachel

We’ve removed that. I mean, think about what I just said. There’s 2 cashiers working at any time. They have 15 checkout lanes, but they’ve yet they’ve expanded their self-checkout to 15 lanes and that’s where they force you.

Ashley

Yes.

Rachel

That is the machine thing again that you don’t even think about. It’s like those small interactions. I especially think about it for like the older generation that gets out of their house to have interaction. We see it, especially in like European cities.

Ashley

Totally.

Rachel

Older generations are living alone a lot longer because they are getting out in cities and having social interaction. And the people in the US are like, oh, I’ll go to the grocery store for some human interaction. And there’s a self-checkout. And they’re like, well, that may be the one person they talk to that day.

Ashley

Or I have my Air Pods in and I’m not talking to anybody in the grocery store unless I’m.

Rachel

There’s a time and place for everything. I think, you know, AI and technology helps us do our jobs more efficiently so that we can spend the time on the strategy and the things that the human has to do. But I do think it’s become a crutch. And you mentioned this earlier about how everything’s so curated online and it actually, like people now work fully online. Like content creation is a job, right? Their job is to curate their life to make you want to watch it, which leads to a level of comparison, which then leads to you picking up your phone when you are nervous or upset, and it actually makes you feel worse. versus doing something else. Like something I see is when people read a lot of books in a year. I’m sure you are a big reader, I would imagine. And people are like, how do you read 120 books? And the person’s like, I pick up my Kindle instead of my phone. Like my Kindle stays in my purse when I’m in a waiting room. I’m reading that instead of picking up my phone. It’s impressive how much you can string together when those 5 minutes of scrolling become reading or listening or whatever it is.

Ashley

Totally, and then it’s like, I just, it’s so funny to bring this up because I just I was looking up last night, and I don’t remember exactly what the time frame was, but it’s say like when books were becoming more mainstream, like mass production was more of a thing. Like there was a similar fear in that, like, oh my God, people are so distracted by books.

Rachel Oh my God, this is so funny.

Ashley

That’s totally how it’s happening with phones. So like it is like, Maybe it’s part of human nature that we like to distract ourselves, right? It’s just a different version.

Rachel

Why do people use illicit substances? Sure, of course.

Rachel

Everyone’s looking for a way to leave reality. It’s just, what’s the healthy version? Exactly.

Ashley

Yeah. And I think for, like, if we’re looking at digital wellness, like, I think that, yeah, it’s like a, it’s a way of like tuning into yourself so that you can use it in, like you just said, the best way that supports. what you want. Because people who, some people are just not here for digital wellness. And that’s fine.

Dan

Yeah.

Ashley

Right? Yeah.

Dan

You find your own balance.

Ashley

So it works for you. Exactly.

Rachel

I feel like you should create a journal. I feel like you’d be very good at that. Like something that takes people off their phone first thing in the morning, right? Like that’s a big thing people want to do.

Ashley

Totally, totally. So I do have some card games that like conversation card games, and then I also have Jenga blocks that are like conversation-based. that’s fun. It’s a little more like game-related, but… maybe a journal is in the future.

Rachel

I just feel like you could really make it digital wellness focused. So like thinking about how being intentional, maybe you open the journal first thing in the morning and set your intentions for how you’re going to interact with the digital world that day.

Ashley

Totally.

Rachel

I don’t know. Feels like it could be a next business venture. It feels fitting.

Ashley

Totally.

Rachel

Talk about some of, so we know you host events. Anything coming up? What’s kind of next for Tomorrow is Human.

Ashley

Yeah. So my next event for when this podcast will come out is going to be at Bamboo Royal Oak on December 9th. And we’re going to be, it’s going to be a little more play and craft focused versus dinner party focused. And so we’re going to be decorating journals. Speaking of journals…

Rachel

I love it.

Ashley Decorating journals. And then I’m partnering with Kelsey our tongue of Give Wrapped, and she’s a professional gift wrapper. And so she’s going to teach us how to wrap, and then we’ll be able to either keep the, like gift yourself the journal or gift the journal to someone else. Oh, that’s cool. So looking to, in 2026, like expand beyond dinners specifically, those will still keep going, but looking for other ways to I know that creativity, play, are all part of that humanity that we live it in adulthood, exactly, so I also feel like there’s something available for college students and Gen. Z, so I’m working on kind of how do I also… like, work with millennials, but also how do I work?

Dan

Yeah, bring that gap to kind of the next generation, and that’ll be neat.

Ashley

Yeah.

Rachel

Different approach.

Ashley

Looking forward to seeing what you’re doing business is always evolving, right? So, what I talk about today is gonna, like, tomorrow will be just the next iteration. I love that.

Rachel

I actually just signed up for a six-week pottery course, where you go weekly, we talk about creativity, and in the winter, like, get you out of the house, something to do, you’re off your phone, whatever it is, right? And I’ve been trying to sign up for one for months, since the last year. They fill up so fast, which I’m excited about for people, but I’m also like, I want to get in there.

Ashley

Oh, that’s so fun. Well, you’ll have to show us your finished product.

Rachel

I did one very short class one time, and I made a bowl.

Ashley

So it’s like on a wheel.

Rachel

Yes. Okay, cool. And I, the crafting of it, beautiful. The glazing, atrocious. So, I know where my weakness maybe stands.

Ashley

I feel like crap. I mean, I will admit I’ve never done this, but I feel like that’s the harder part.

Dan

You would think so, yeah.

Rachel

You can’t really tell where you’re like going with it and how it, yeah. So, Something else to consider as you’re thinking about planning events, maybe it’s a pottery studio.

Ashley Okay, yes, we’ll do it.

Rachel

Because it’s like an activity, but you get to take something, which is what you were just saying about your event too, that I really like is you’re giving people an activity and I like the Jenga blocks are good.

Dan

That’s come away with something too.

Ashley

Yeah, absolutely. I think that is like you’re saying, we don’t get to do like make this specific time for ourselves as like working adults and so allowing to connect to self, to each other is so important.

Dan

And learning is something fun that you can use again and you can look back on it and think about it. Yeah. It’s just nice.

Ashley

Yeah.

Dan

So we always like to close on, we always like to close on this question, but thinking back to you’re coming out of school, you know, getting your master’s…

Rachel

It’s a good question for you.

Dan

..who is like an archeologist. Yeah. What is one thing that you would tell your 21-year-old self, kind of like, as a lesson to take forward throughout your career.

Rachel

Knowing what now?

Ashley

I know. I think for a long time, like present Ashley had a lot of shame around not having a specific, clear, direct career path. And so I think that I would probably tell my 21-year-old self to be open to experimenting and to Yeah, that creating her own career path is actually the correct path for her…

Dan and Rachel

Yeah.

Ashley

…versus being in comparison to the many people that she was surrounded by who were maybe taking a more typical career path.

Dan

Well, it goes back to what you were talking about with, Connecticut and the job at that point. It’s that everything does, everything happens for a reason is a cliche, but there is something to that.

Ashley

Yeah, and I think now as like where I’m at, I can look back and be like, oh yeah, it all makes sense. But in the moment, I had really like, okay, I guess there’s two things. One is that I had really only been exposed to get the job, you work the job for 30, 40 years, and then you retire. That was like very much the people that I grew up around.

Rachel

I think that’s just our generation. We watched our parents do exactly that.

Ashley

Yes, And like every single one of my family members lives in Massachusetts. It’s like very, yeah, which I think is very typical. But I probably would also tell my past self that like moving is the biggest like growth opportunity that she can have. It exposed me to so many different ways of living, whether it was jobs or just like lifestyle or how people interact. Like I love where I grew up and I’m so, I think my journey and where I’ve been able to like be in different spaces has really made me a better person.

Dan

Yeah, more well-rounded. See so much more.

Rachel

I always tell people, because I basically live where I grew up. But one thing that’s always been very important is travel and seeing other cultures and immersing yourself and not just going and being who you are here somewhere else, but actually like respecting their culture. Go to museums, take local tours, try local foods, right? That’s how you’re going to expand your brain to realize that like there’s so much more going on than what’s just happening right around you.

Ashley

Totally. And it doesn’t like, I also like, I’m an archaeologist. I love traveling abroad. And like, But we’re so lucky that like, okay, even the state of Michigan is huge. Like as somebody from New England, I’m like, I can stay in one, or even I lived in Texas, like you’d stay in one state for like hours. That is crazy. 17 hours. It doesn’t have to be in Michigan. So you don’t have to, it doesn’t, I think that I love traveling and I think sometimes people can limit themselves and that, oh, it has to, It has to be Instagrammable.

Rachel

Sure.

Ashley

It has to be this like bougie trip abroad. It can be like just going to a different neighborhood in your city. Like it can traveling, I think is relative, but I think it’s the willingness to like expose yourself to the cringe, like and like feeling uncomfortable. Like it goes all back to that. And so I think if we’re just, And I’m in the practice too, people. I am not perfect. Like I feel the fear. And I think if we all were able to like just step over that threshold, like just like stay in it for like one more minute.

Rachel

Yeah.

Ashley

Who knows what could happen?

Rachel

I love that. That’s great. Well, Ashley, thank you so much for joining us. This is, we’ve talked so much about AI on this podcast. And I love having both sides of it. It’s just, you gotta see everything for what it is. And you’re doing yourself a disservice if you just stick to 1 viewpoint. And so I love, I love this.

Ashley

And AI is, like you’ve spoken to, allows for a lot of productivity and like Digital wellness to me is not about being more productive, it’s about being more present. Yeah.

Rachel

I like that. We’re going to end right there.

Dan

Yeah, that’s perfect.

Rachel

Thank you.

Ashley

Thank you.

Dan

Well, thank you again to Ashley for coming on today. This was a really interesting and fun discussion. We were just talking, you know, we do talk a lot about AI and technology on this show, and it is… it’s good to talk about that balance and why it’s so important that, while technology can be great for some things, you do need to have to, you do need to kind of be conscious of your limitations with that and remaining human in that.

Rachel

There’s a reason we’re like less screen time for kids. Don’t let them see a screen until they’re a certain age. Like maybe we should all take a little page out of that book.

Dan

Yeah. A little lesson.

Rachel

So thanks again to Ashley. We will link where you can find information about Tomorrow is Human in the description of this episode. So be sure to check that out and we will see you next time.

Dan

See ya.