frankly… Episode 94: Detroit is the Most Collaborative City

In this episode of frankly…

The transcript below is AI-generated and may contain minor inaccuracies. Tune in to the episode audio to hear the full conversation! 

Transcript

Dan

Hello, welcome to Frankly.

Rachel

Hello, welcome.

Dan

And welcome back, Rachel.

Rachel

Thank you, thank you.

Dan

First episode in a few months here, fresh off of leave.

Rachel

Yes, my voice is back. Yeah, happy to be back. This is a good conversation to kick off with. It was very invigorating.

Dan

It was, yeah. So today we’re talking with Delainie Wheeler, who is partner brand and strategy with Backtalk Detroit. So Delainie’s work focuses on messaging and positioning and brand. She talks a lot about that process and the importance of kind of listening as part of the process of building out that positioning, but also about, you know, bigger picture side of things, the community of business here in Detroit talks about the creative community here in Detroit. She’s part of the Detroit Month of Design. The council, yeah. council putting that together for the September. So get into that a little bit. Really, really just like, and really enjoyed the conversation, just kind of hearing about how all of these things play together and building some excitement for what’s coming up in a few months here.

Rachel

Yeah, you know we do a good amount of work with the small business community in Detroit too, and I just love everybody’s enthusiasm for it, and she really shares that too.

Dan

Yeah, and just openness to working together on things.

Rachel

Yeah, absolutely. So with that, welcome to Delainie.

Dan

Hi, Delainie. Welcome to Frankly. Thanks for coming on.

Delainie

Hello. Thank you guys so much for having me.

Dan

Yeah. So we always like to start kind of simple here, but walk us through a little bit of your background, how you got to where you are today, and yeah, I guess talk us through your career path a bit and what brought you here.

Delainie

Sweet. Okay, well, great. I’m so excited to be here. This is a very cool studio. I’ve never been in y’all’s office before.

Rachel

It’s brand new to us. Yeah. Just a few months ago.

Delainie

Okay, cozy, cozy, cozy. Well, it feels lived in, which is great. Good. Okay, so I am originally from around the area. I grew up like 15, 20 minutes outside of the city, spent a lot of time in the city growing up. My family’s from the city. And then classically, I went to Wayne State and I never left. That is the way it goes for so many of us. Yeah so I spent my time there majoring in broadcast and new media is what they called it. I don’t know if they still call it that, but that was all surrounding like social marketing, website design and marketing and funneling and strategy. And then of course, on the broadcast side of things, spent a lot of time in production, spent a lot of time, frankly, just around the city, getting to know people. And I think everything’s come from that, right? I’ve had my, I like to I just stick my hands in a lot of pots, as I always say. So I was doing a lot of that when I was younger. And I also did some production work while I was at Wayne State for Detroit Public Television. I actually used to produce local music segments on a show that was called Metro Arts. I don’t know if it’s on anymore, but it had quite a long run. So it got pretty deep into the local music industry from there. At the same time, I was starting to do small business marketing in Detroit, around Detroit, the metro area. And with that, a lot of community events planning as well. And as you can imagine, when you are doing community events planning or any kind of marketing for a small business, all you do is talk to a million other small business owners, right?

Rachel

And there’s such a network of them in the city. We’ve done work with some small business support organizations. And That network runs deep.

Delainie

It’s insane. If you meet one, you meet them all.

Dan

Yeah

And then you become one. That’s how it goes. But yeah, so I started to meet so many amazing small business owners and working with them and really getting to know how a small business operates versus a larger business of any kind or corporation, whatever. And basically, classic, it’s a backtalk, which is I’m the co-founder of Backtalk Detroit. We’re a brand and marketing studio based over on the east side of Detroit. But that all came into being from having those relationships with small business owners. And it started hyper, hyper, hyper small business focused, classic COVID business. When COVID hit, I started to hear a lot from small business owners who were like, how do I transition what I’m doing to online? How do I keep in touch with my people online? Like I’m used to having my storefront, I’m used to having my events, whatever that looked like for them. And they just knew that I was on the internet a lot and doing a lot of digital marketing, as well as those community events, right? So we started working with folks to pivot them towards online and teaching them how to build online and sustain online while all of that was happening. And I have an amazing co-founder. Her name is Marissa, and she’s the entire growth and operations side of our business. And so together, right, with me in the brand and strategy seat, her overgrowth in operations, it just really naturally and organically happened and built. And so I had all of those relationships with the creative community in Detroit from my past production work and generally, being in that industry. And so it was a really natural build over into things like brand and storytelling and marketing. And a lot of production work we still do today, working a lot with designers, et cetera. So kind of getting to marry the two communities that I was spending time in being the small business and being the creative to build where we’re sitting today, which is pretty sweet.

Dan

Awesome. Yeah. So it sounds like it was kind of built out of just kind of like a necessity that you saw in that community, but like now, this five, six years on, are you kind of starting to see maybe the flip side of that and some of the people that you had worked with to become more digital? Are you seeing them kind of like go back to those community events or like shift back into a different challenge?

Delainie

Totally. And I’m huge on the in-person being the most important part, right? I’m like, digital anything, marketing anything will never be your business, in my opinion. I’m like, you have to have those real life relationships. And if you are doing it online, then you have to maintain that in a completely different way, right? It’s not just a matter of building your brand and posting and whatever. Like that’s not going to take you very far. It’s especially not going to take you very far in a place like Detroit, where all we care about is spending time together. And there’s so much to be said for like, it’s so important when you go to an event or you go to somebody’s like birthday party around here and you see familiar faces, right? Those are the people that you naturally then are going to trust and that you want to work with and you want to build with more. So I definitely have seen and I always encourage folks to step away and stop relying on digital to sustain you. It’s not going to anymore because now we don’t have to do that right now. So yeah, and it’s about marrying the two, right? It’s like if you’re not doing those pieces of in-person interaction and community building and spending time in those places, then you have nothing to market, you have nothing to capture, you don’t have a story to tell, like you haven’t done anything. So I would say that the digital piece and the The brand piece follows what business owners are doing in their day-to-day lives out in the real world.

Dan

Yeah, I mean, and so much of that skill set was just born out of that necessity to make that transition.

Delainie

Yeah, we had to make it work.

Dan

Yeah, it makes you more well-rounded than on the other side now that you can get back in person.

Delainie

Yeah, of course.

Rachel

You, what I love is that you were helping, like through working with entrepreneurs, you became an entrepreneur.

Delainie

100%.

Rachel

Talk a little bit about that transition for yourself too, because we have a ton of entrepreneurs in the Detroit area. You were working with them, small business, growing that, but to become one too, what was your journey like?

Delainie

Yeah, I always knew that I would and wanted to own a business. I didn’t think that I would do it then. It was pretty quick. But it always interested me. And I love leading in that way. I love getting to work with friends and building in that sense. It was an interesting transition because with all of that being said, and as I’ve shared, I had no business background. I am still learning every day as I go. And so that was like, That was honestly the phone call to Marissa, my co-founder.

Rachel

Okay.

Delainie

She has like a completely different background from me. She has corporate experience in every industry you could ever imagine. She always ended up working in operations. She has experience in like small business bookkeeping, just like little nuggets here and there, right? And we were working together at a small business at the time. She was taking a break from corporate because corporate.

Rachel

Burn you right out.

Delainie

Yes, it will. And it did. So she was she was taking a lap. And I had the idea to start what Backtalk is today based on some freelance calls that I was getting. And I was like, okay, there is a need. And I, on my second phone call that I got, told that person that I had a business and I did not have a business. Exactly. And because it was COVID, had nothing else going on. So I called Marissa and I was like, a lot more about this than I do, even if you don’t have a technical business background. Like, does this interest you? And because we were both in a similar position, working at the same place, things were slow. She was like, sure, why not? Like, let’s rip it and find out. And so I think within a year or maybe less, we both had left that other job and we were full-time back talk and we’ve just been building from there. So I think that, being around small business owners and you’re just constantly like soaking up what they’re saying, you’re soaking up the philosophy and you are always level setting, right? Like the business owners are so gracious and sharing what they’re dealing with and how they’re navigating and there’s no gatekeeping. And I think the city of Detroit is the most collaborative city like to work in point blank period when I talk to other folks in other cities about how we do things here, they’re always floored because we’re so open and so kind in that way. So I think having those relationships, not I think, I know, that’s what allowed us to make it happen, right? It was just a constant flow of always asking questions, always being curious. If you didn’t know how to do something, I’m like, you’re constantly phoning in a favor, asking a question to a friend. Like, how do I do this? How do I save this? Somebody asked me to do this thing, do you know somebody who can make it happen? And so spending a lot of time in collaborative working relationships too is what really allows you to kind of fill the gaps as a business owner as you’re finding your way. And then you start to be able to gauge of like, well, what do I want to hold in my business and where do I want to collaborate and outsource and whatever and work with other people? to make the business of it all work and to make the folks who you’re working with, right, like your clients have what they need.

Rachel

Yeah, I’ve heard so many entrepreneurs and business owners say, you have to know where you fall short and when to bring it up. Like that is one of the biggest skills is absolutely is know what you can’t do because you can’t do everything and find the partners to help you with that.

Delainie

So yeah, jack of all, master of none, right? It’s the classic line of thinking. And if you try to be good at everything, People are going to see right through that. Absolutely. And you’re going to be bad at everything is the only answer. Yeah.

Dan

You talked about business owners being open to sharing their stories. And going back to something you said at the beginning of like having that background in broadcast or in new media, I mean, do you feel like some of that almost like journalistic way of thinking is like part of what helps you draw out those stories from businesses? Or how do you see those like dots connecting and what you’re doing today?

Delainie

Big time. We at Backtalk, we are so, focused in the story. And that is the strategy for us. We talk a lot about how, when we’re level setting with folks and talking about what we do and how we do it to figure out if we’re a right fit for somebody, it’s always focused on like, we’re not like a ROI robot marketing brand company. Like we’re very much so into story and we’re into an organic audience build and the numbers will follow, right? And again, I think that Detroit is very unique and specific in that way of like, we don’t care about that. Like those pieces are important. You have to have those pieces in order to like have success and live the life you want to live. But when a business or a company or a brand shows up in a way that feels like they’re pushing you, we are like reluctant and don’t want to go there. And so we are, again, so focused in story. We spend so much time in positioning and in messaging and like digging, digging, digging. and really getting to know the folks that we’re working with. And I mean that, it shows up in the work quite differently. And that for sure, to your point, comes from, I’m A journalist. We have a lot of journalists on our team. We have like psychologists, or folks with psychology degrees, rather, excuse me, on our team too. So I think that there’s this like desire across the board for the folks on our team who like want to get in and they want to know and they have a real curiosity. And everybody is very comfortable talking to each other and asking questions. And there’s that level of no ego that goes into it too, of like, I don’t know, you tell me. You’re the owner of this business or of this brand or whatever, I need you to tell me and teach me and I need to soak up the story here so that I can help convey it in a way that people are gonna be able to pick it up.

Rachel

I think it’s important. I always tell people when we do discovery, I’m going to ask you the same question six different ways because you’re going to give me a different answer every time to get more and more into that. I think as like marketers and communicators and storytellers at the end of the day, that’s a big part of our job.

Delainie

Absolutely.

Rachel

We always say that you can find anybody to give you the deliverable to write the messaging, but that process and who you’re working with along the way to get there makes all the difference. Of course. So I think you guys have mastered that, right? Thank you.

Delainie

Yeah, There’s, to your point, like such a big difference between the quick fix that folks are trying to get to sometimes. And I’m like, it is going to be so much more worth your while to spend the time and like, let us ask ask you the same question 6 times. Like, let us, for lack of better words, bug you and really get in there to understand so that consistently, and as a business owner, like as you have new things come up and you want to add more to the fold or you have new people joining your team and you’re growing, we understand that background and we can layer that part of the story into where you’re going to go, right? Because we don’t want to lose the folks who you’ve already established relationships with while you’re bringing in new audiences and new brand fans. So there’s a real, you know, level of Yeah, like magic that has to happen there and asking those questions and getting to know folks.

Rachel

So where do you think you see clients get stuck in that process? It’s because it is a lot of digging in and hard work and they’re kind of like, again or whatever. Where are they getting stuck?

Delainie

I think I see folks get stuck by trying to make their brand be too many things. I think that a lot of folks are looking around, naturally, I’m like, we’re so inundated with information all of the time, and we’re always looking for inspiration, and we’re scrolling, and we’re following other people, and we’re meeting with these people, and doing that whole dance and trying to absorb what has made other people successful, classic. And so I do see folks, especially when they, again, are building, whether it’s new business or they’re pushing into their next phase or whatever, on the brand side and on the marketing side, I see folks trying to get their brand and to get their story to hold too many things that are not actually relevant to who they are and what their story actually is, right? So I think that a lot of that discovery that you’re talking about, and that I know very, very well too, is sifting through and working with the client to help them understand the through line, sometimes in their own story, or at least how to abstract it in a way and then communicate it in a way that somebody strolling by on the street who’s going to see this piece very quickly or scrolling on their phone or whatever is going to be able to absorb it and digest it quick enough to hold on to it and want to hear more and want to come back for more. And there’s a lot to be said for when people are telling you so much and you have these pieces that might not fit into the immediate like brand forward core piece of the puzzle, like the foundation of that brand and the foundation of that story. It’s like, we’re not gonna get rid of it. We’re gonna hold on to that and we’re gonna pack it. Exactly. We’re gonna bring it forward later in a different way. Yeah. So I think that there is the strategic piece of brand where clients do get stuck of like, trust me, trust the process. We’re gonna cherry pick these pieces. This is gonna become the core of the foundation. Like this hits all of the core value points, your vision, like this is what we’re building. And then we’ll bring in those other parts down the line, like in application, in campaigns, in whatever, when we’re bringing this into the real world.

Dan

Because I mean, that goes back to the master of none thing that you were talking about before. It’s like whether you’re building your own business and trying to find partners or you’re trying to explain what your business does, trying to be everything to everyone is never going to be a method for success.

Rachel

I also think when you have founders digging in to tell you their story, they almost get one step ahead and say like, I know what’s important. So they’ll like, continue to harp on one thing and you’re like, no, I’m getting at something else. Just because you think that’s the most important thing. Yeah. I’m going to humble you for a minute. Step back because I’m pulling out other things and listening with like, you know, a clear head. I’m not the one in it. And they can almost get ahead of themselves with what they think should be most important. It’s like, but that’s why you’re sitting here because that hasn’t worked for you. So let’s take this other way. And like you said, that’s not a bad storyline. We’ll put it in other campaigns. It’ll have its place. But like.

Delainie

Right, And that’s the classic tale of, it’s like you’ve, we’re working together for a reason. And I am always big on when we’re talking to folks and figuring out if we’re a good fit for them and vice versa, I think it’s often a matter of, am I a part of your audience? Like, would I buy what you’re selling? Am I into your brand in the 1st place? Because if not, then I’m not going to be able to do a good job at telling that story, right? And so assuming that we are, and then we’re working together, it’s exactly that. I’m like, I’m listening to you and I’m going to distill what is going to land, especially on that first impression, right, for like that core foundation. And there is so much to be said for not getting ahead of yourself. And again, remembering like the different phases of what we’re building. Are we working on the foundation or are we building a campaign, right? Like is this core or is this application? And finding some difference between the two. And it is so hard when you’re a founder and even working on, you know, like your own marketing as a founder, which I am doing all of the time. It does get hard to step back and to remove yourself, but that is the beauty of having a team. That’s why you do that. That’s why you surround yourself with other people and you trust their judgment. And you trust their eye and you trust their storytelling too and their ear. And so I think that there is much to be said for letting go and letting the folks around you do their thing. Like let them do their job, let them have their expertise and bring it forward and let it run and let it see, let yourself see how it lands on your audience’s ears and then pivot from there if it’s not landing in the way that you want it to. But if you never let that thing come to fruition and you never let the world see it, then you’re going to get stuck in this constant loop of trying to force this thing that clearly, to your point, you’ve already been trying and you’ve already been doing and it’s already not working.

Dan

So you talked a little bit about the kind of overall business community here in Detroit, but talk about more of the creative community. I know you’re involved with Detroit Month of Design, some of these things, some of these major events and organizations around the city. Talk about what that community means to you or like how you’ve played a role in that and how that’s played a role in kind of like shaping your business.

Delainie

I would love to. Yes. Okay. Well, for those who don’t know, Detroit is the only UNESCO city of design in the US, which is amazing. some other beloved cities, Mexico City, Montreal, et cetera. But again, we’re the only one in the US. So Detroit has that designation from the United Nations, and therefore we have a group that manages that designation, which is Design Core Detroit. And yeah, every September they put on the month of design, which is this fantastic celebration of design and its many forms across the city. And it’s like events, multiple events every day, a whole month of the month. It is so impressive, not just by way of, how it is put on, but also by way of how many folks get involved and want to be involved and rep the city in that way. So yeah, this year I am on the council, which is really, really cool. Congratulations. Thank you. Thank you. Yeah, that was a lovely invitation. So we’re definitely still in the early stages, right? It is just about to be July or the end of June right now, we’re recording. So September will be here before we know it. But thus far, the The biggest part of that has been looking at all of the amazing applications that have come in and vetting those and working through those with the rest of the council, with the rest of the team. And you’re doing a couple of things, right? You’re looking to see what really fits the theme, what is actually advantageous for the neighborhood and for the city and for the culture here. And you’re also doing this matchmaking process too for some of these applications that come in. Some folks apply to be like the venue of the space. Some folks apply to be an exhibitor themselves. And some folks are doing all right. They have the place and they have the thing.

Rachel

Full package.

Delainie

Right, But in some cases, you get to do that matchmaking, which has been really amazing. That’s a fun process to think about the space, to think about the person, and to think about like the personalities of both of those things. and help folks find a place for their thing and help places find an art, a creative to step in and bring their space to life. So I got involved with Design Core originally with Marissa, my co-founder for Back Talk. So we’ve been members for years and years and years now. And all throughout the year, they throw these amazing events and create so much We have so many opportunities to meet with, again, like other founders, other creatives, et cetera. And I think that, again, I think the city of Detroit is very unique in the way that we have so many untraditional business owners and so many creatives are business owners and like absolutely crushing it, right? And so I think having the opportunity to connect with folks who are on perhaps more of an untraditional path in business or in creativity or whatever that looks like for them is so valuable and you’re constantly hearing about and learning other ways to do things, which feels huge. And you’re just surrounded by inspiration all the time. And it’s so important to me because you frankly have such a unique opportunity to engage with the city. Not only in the people, but also you get to go into so many spaces around the city and open doors that you never would have otherwise done and gotten to see behind the curtain a bit there. So it’s a lot of like rich history. It’s a lot of inspiration. And again, it’s a lot of story. And that context when you’re working here and you’re working with business owners here is so important.

Dan

Yeah, because I mean, you go, the city is huge mileage wise and there’s so many like individual communities that are separated by a lot of space and separated by different I guess just like different cores. Like each one has its own personality, its own spaces, its own different type of creative that goes along with that. So to be able to kind of spread that month across the entirety of the city rather than some things that are more just downtown focused or things like that, it’s cool to get out into those neighborhoods and see what’s all available.

Delainie

Yeah, we’re definitely a city of subcultures for sure. And we do have such a huge footprint. So to see the city activated far and wide and also to see that direct connection of neighborhoods and of subcultures, right? Like you might get somebody from, I don’t know, like way over on the west side, throwing an event on the east side. I’m like, that’s really interesting. And then you get to see their people show up to those events and like interact and hang out. And it’s a whole moment in and of itself. Yeah, it’s amazing.

Rachel

What’s the theme this year?

Delainie

So this year’s theme is Designing the Future. And it is centered on how Detroit creatives are doing just that. And I think A big thing that you notice when you attend Month of Design events, or if you just spend time in the city of Detroit in general, is the many, many forms of design and how that manifests, not only in an event, but in your daily life. There’s a reason we have that designation, and it’s because design is loud around us everywhere we go. Design Corps also does these events throughout the year called Drinks by Design 2, kind of leading up two months of design in the summer. And I think that is just exhibit A of the ways that design shows up around the city, right? You see, they’ll do events that are focused in like fashion and in sustainability and design that way. You see events centered on like design in tech. You see events centered on design in gastronomy. Like it’s everything, left to right, up and down. And redefining what design means to people. And also, I think, kind of training our eyes to look for design and to appreciate design, and even in the way that design can help you and enjoy your space and… the ways that design can help you understand how to navigate from one place to the next, right? Like even wayfinding or you think about public space design. Yeah, it’s everywhere.

Dan

Yeah, I mean, even like the first thing that you see before you even cross the city limits, if you’re coming from outside is, you know, you can see the architecture in the skyline and just like how Detroit is so unique and what we have in that way. There’s, I mean, it’s apparent everywhere.

Delainie

Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. A very old city. It’s rich with history. And when you walk around, I’m like, look up. Always look up. It’s gorgeous.

Rachel

Yeah, we just did a walking tour with Jeanette from the City Institute last week with like 10 minutes around our new office to see what’s out there. I mean, she is a walking history book. If you haven’t done a City Institute tour, highly recommend. There’s so many. But listening to her just in what is right around us and when buildings are brought back to life and who did it and how long it took and what did they expose. And you’re just like, wow. When you walk into a building, you don’t always think of that first until someone Points it out. Then you walk into every building and you’re like, wow, I wonder about this, right? Of course. So I think what you said that’s important is that design can be so many different things. And I think what that does is it makes people think of themselves as creatives differently. There is, we’ve had Taylor May on the podcast who talks about like redefining kind of like, what is a creative, right? Like, how do you think about a creative? And I feel like this event and the month of design really does that for you. People that don’t think of themselves as creatives can kind of go like, oh, maybe I am in this space that I don’t actually think I fit into. But if I think about it a little bit differently and I go and I talk to other people and I see what other people are doing, you kind of can fit yourself more into that. And I think that just like changes how you think. and do your job sometimes too.

Delainie

I agree. And yeah, shout out to Taylor. She’s a close collaborator of mine too. I love her. Yeah. But I agree. There is something special. And I think that that’s, I would say that that’s true for myself. I would never in a million years have qualified myself or rather categorized myself as any kind of creative. And then you go to these events and you talk to folks who are like active and they’re showing up at these events and they’re presenting and whatever. And then they tell you that they do something very similar to what it is that you’re doing. And it makes you pause for a second and recalibrate and think and reflect of like, well, why am I in my own way that I can do these things? And we can do them together, right, too. And again, I think that there is such, there’s such magic. And when you go to those events and you get to see who is collaborating with who, and when you, whether it’s a piece of artwork or it is an event or something else that’s come to life, seeing the way that folks have like, somebody’s had the idea, they’ve done the really simple outreach to communicate that idea with whoever, and then they’ve gotten organized and like, now here it is, and we all get to enjoy it. To your point, it’s like all of those pieces of that puzzle Are all different forms of creative, and sometimes it just comes down to the strategy and planning of a creative thing that people will get to enjoy. Yeah, yay.

Dan

So, I want to round out, I know we’re taking up a lot of your time here, but… Give us kind of one thing that you’ve learned throughout your career and your path to becoming a founder and a business owner now. What’s something that you wish you would have either known coming out of school into your early career or what you would tell somebody now just joining the workforce or just kind of trying to find their way?

Delainie

I think that I have been, I have always tried to operate this way. I think that it gets hard when you’re in the weeds and you’re in the thick of it. But it is truly that classic piece of advice of like low and slow. Trust what you’re doing. Take time to define your own positioning and understand who you are and where you want to go and how that fits into the puzzle of whatever it is that you’re building, whether you are a solopreneur or a creative or if you are on a team or if you work at another business or if you’re building your own business. I think that it is so important to, again, understand what’s important to you, not only by way of your values, but also of your lifestyle. Like, how do I want to spend my time? Who do I want to be around? Like, what does my day look like in general? In addition to like, who am I? What are my values? Like, what can I offer? And being able to write those down and marry those two things together to better discern not only what you’re going to build, but how you’re going to build it. And when you do that, trust it and let it take time. and steady on. And when things don’t feel right, like then that’s not meant for you. Or maybe it was meant for you and you can move on from there. But it’s that trust in whatever is happening around you of like, I am, I’m going the right way. I don’t need to pivot. I don’t need to adjust, you know, beyond the general learnings. But if you take the time and let things take the time, they will turn out exactly how they’re supposed to. Yeah.

Rachel

Nothing happens overnight. Amen. Enjoy that process.

Delainie

Amen, sister.

Rachel

Love it. thank you so much, Delainie. Really appreciate the time, the conversation. We will link to Backtalk as well as Detroit Month of Design website in the description so people can check it all out.

Delainie

Amazing. Thank you guys so much for having me. Thank you.

Rachel

Thank you. All right. Thanks again to Delainie for joining us today. As I mentioned, things linked in the description here, you can find, check out Backtalk, check out Detroit Month of Design. I think probably in the next few weeks here, we’ll start to see some of those events look like for September. Yeah. So if you’re in the area, definitely add some to your calendar. She was giving us a little bit of insight after we stopped recording of some cool stuff that might be to come. So definitely keep your eyes peeled and we will see you next time. See you.